SPD's Scholz and CDU's Merz spar on migration, economy, AfD – DW – 02/13/2025 (2025)

02/13/2025February 13, 2025

The verdict of DW's chief political correspondent on the debate

TV debates are visual events. Merz towers over Scholz physically. Scholz has to look up to him. That mirrors the impression viewers get regarding the content of the debate halfway through: Olaf Scholz was on the defensive, and missed opportunities to point out the risks of Merz's strategy to put stricter migration policies on the agenda in the election campaign.

He didnot attack Merz enough for having tolerated parliamentary success on the issue only because of votes from the far-right AfD party. Scholz instead optedfor a differentiated depiction of migration rules, which carried the risk of viewers switching off.

That wassurprising given that the TV debates are widely seen as Scholz's last chance to catch up with his rival.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

DW Fact check: Is Germany Ukraine’s biggest supporter in Europe?

The claim: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said "Germany is the biggest supporter of Ukraine in Europe and will remain so."

The facts: According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, Germany does rank in second place behind the United States in terms of total bilateral aid to Ukraine.

From the beginning of 2022 through October 2024, Germany’s support amounted to nearly €16 billion, compared with €88 billion from the United States.

But support can also be understood differently. When analyzing the number of tanks, infantry vehicles or rocket systems allocated to Ukraine, Germany is further down the list, according to the Kiel Institute.

However, as far as air defense systems areconcerned, Germany has delivered the most, with 27 such weapons. The US has delivered 18.

Support for Ukraine can also be understood in terms of Ukrainian migrants that have been welcomed by countries around the world. In absolute numbers, Germany hosts the highest number of beneficiaries of temporary protection from Ukraine in the EU, according to European statistics as of November 2024.

But relative to the population, the highest ratios were observed in other EU countries such as Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia and Latvia.

Whether Germany remains Ukraine’s biggest supporter, as Scholz claims, is something that will depend on the outcome of the upcoming federal election.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Debate between Chancellor Scholz and conservative candidate Merz ends

After debating for about 90 minutes, Chancellor Olaf Scholz and the favorite for the future German chancellor, Friedrich Merz, have wrapped up their on air-clash with two weeks to go before the election.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Merz hints at cutting public services to boost defense spending

Saim Dušan Inayatullah

Scholz called for Germany to dedicate at least 2% of its GDP to defense over the next four years, while his rival, Friedrich Merz, said he preferred a figure of 3%.

The chancellor said Berlin would only be able to increase defense spending if it were toremove the debt brake.

Merz said that Germany needs to be "way above 2%," but would first need to "get to 2% step by step."

He said that Germany could dedicate more funds to defense with more growth in a "strong economy," saying that the debate was stuck around "static" numbers.

Merz said he would "reprioritize items of our budget," saying that Germany could "reduce subsidies" and "take a look at public services and … the number of people working there."

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

How will Germany deal with Trump?

Moderators pointed to US President Donald Trump'soften erratic behavior in office, then asked Merz if he still believed the US president was "predictable," as he had said in the past.

"Well, he is predictably unpredictable," Merz replied.

"It's important for us, on this side of the Atlantic, to be united," he said. He noted that Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, was "very concerned" by Trump's comments on Greenland, and said he had discussed this with her last week.

"We need a joint European strategy," Merzsaid.

He said the EU was more populous than the US, with comparable economic strength, and that if it could maintain a united front, it should be possible to reach amicable and mutually beneficial agreements.

Scholz said he would deal with Trump the same as he always had.

"The strategy I've already used, clear words and friendly conversations," he said.

He stressed Germany's desire to work with the US, but said "we mustn't kid ourselves."

"What the US president says, he means," Scholz said, adding he believed it was important to stand up to Trump. Scholz also said he was the first European leader to say that proposing a takeover of Greenland was out of order.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

DW Fact check: Has there never been a three-year recession in Germany?

The claim: Friedrich Merz said "we are in the third year of a recession. This has never happened before in Germany”

The facts: Helena Melnikov, managing director at the German Chamber of Commerce and Industry, said in an analysis published in Januarythat three consecutive years without growth would be a first since World War II.

"This ...shows the historic challenge that politics and business are facing together,"she said.

The Federation of German Industries (BDI) echoed the sentiment in itspredictions for the German economy in 2025.

Historical data published by Germany’s Federal Statistical Office (Destatis)back this.

The state of the German economy is one of the main topics of the current political campaign.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

How to protect Ukraine? Should it join NATO?

Both Scholz and Merz voiced hope for peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine followingDonald Trump's taking charge in the United States.

Scholz said it "remains to be seen" whether peace can be achieved in Ukraine after Trump assumed power.

"It would be very good if this war were to end," he said.

Scholz defended his stance on not providing longer-range cruise missiles to Ukraine, saying this was a step Germany should not support. He accused Merz of flip-flopping on the issue, previously supporting the idea, though Merz disputed this.

Asked if Ukraine should join NATO, Merz said "they can't do that."

"Because NATO doesn't accept members who are currently in a war," Merz said. At the same time, he said giving Ukraine EU candidate status was the "right thing to do," and indicated that entering the European Unionwould give Ukraine "significantly more security." He made no reference to the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO after the war is over.

Scholz said Ukrainianmembership in NATO wasn't "happening any time soon" as the US had rejected the proposal.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Scholz: 'If you earn 3 million you can pay a bit more in taxes'

Both Merz, who spent decades in business and banking during his political timeout, and former Finance Minister Scholz fancy themselves as economic specialists.

Merz saidlower taxes would spur growth rather thanscare people away to tax havens such as Switzerland, and would leave the government better off than if it taxed too aggressively.

The conservative politician said that income tax is "not only paid by the rich."

"It is also being paid by individual business people, retailers, companies," he said. "It is being paid by hundreds of thousands of companies who pay income taxes instead of corporation taxes."

But Scholz retorted by saying that both he and Merz should both pay more taxes.

"People earn even more than you and me should also pay more taxes," he said, addressing Merz."I'm just saying if you earn 3 million you can pay a bit more in taxes, and you don't think that's true, and that's the difference between us."

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Scholz points to his government raising minimum wage

Scholz called for Germany toimplementa €15 ($15.5) minimum wage.

He said he was "proud" of his government's measure to raise the minimum wage to €12 in 2022.

"So many people earned so little," he said, adding that the "low-wage sector" had "shrunk" under his government.

Merz said Scholz had promised that the minimum wage increase to €12 would be a "one-off" decision.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

'Trump's plan for Gaza: What do you make of that?'

The politicians also broadly agreed on rejecting Donald Trump's proposal for theUnited States to take over and redevelop Gaza.

Scholz described Trump's plan to turn the Gaza Strip into the "Riviera of the Middle East" as a "scandal"given the extent of destruction and suffering there.

"This goes against international law: It's shocking," he said.

Merz said he agreed. However, he cautioned that the proposal was one of several "irritating" ideas floated by the returning US president where "we have to wait and see what is being meant seriously."

He said it could prove wise to exercise patience as Trump's new termcontinues.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

What about Germany's notoriously unreliable rail operator?

Chancellor Scholz said his government had freed up "billions" to improve Germany's rail network and the Deutsche Bahn national railway company.

"We are going to renovate all of it," he said.

Merz said the rail grid needed to remain in government hands, but "competition" could also operate on the rail network.

Scholz accused Merz of wanting to "take apart" Deutsche Bahn and privatize it.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Where do candidates stand on taxes?

Merz criticized Scholz's planned 10% tax incentive, saying the SPD was implementing policies of "higher debt, higher expenditure."

He said the plan would be a "flash in the pan that [would] cost a lot of money."

Scholz said he was against Merz's proposal of "tax reductions for all," arguing that Berlin didn't have the budget for it.

"This goes against the overwhelming majority of our citizens," he said.

"If a company, according to the [Merz's] suggestion ... pays slightly less tax and then they invest abroad, we have gained nothing," he said. Scholz said the tax burden should be eased for lower earners, including dropping the VAT on food.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

'What's going to happen if we have a Bundestag without the FDP?'

A simple enough question, put to both leaders.

What if the struggling neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP), led by Christian Lindner, were to miss the 5% hurdle needed to guarantee parliamentary representation?

"[The parliament]would be poorer, but viable," Merz said.

Scholz smiled, and said he agreed.

Lindner served as finance minister in Scholz's cabinet, but was dismissed in November, leading to the calling of snap elections.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Merz questions why Germany's recovery is slow by EU standards

Merz tried to hit Scholz on the economy again by questioning why Germany was performing worse than many comparable developed Western countries.

Scholz said this was largely because Germany, a highly industrialized European power,is more vulnerableto resource and energy prices than many other countries.

"We are the country with the second highest industrial density among all [in the G7 group of major industrial countries]," he said.

Merz responded that Germany's shutting down of its nuclear power plants had further exacerbated this issue and added pressure on energy prices domestically.

Scholz meanwhile claimed the nuclear power plants constituted "0.02%" of Germany's GDP.

The left-leaning chancellor also went on to point out that the decision to decommission the nuclear plants ultimately traced its roots back to his predecessor Angela Merkel of Merz's CDU.

02/09/2025February 9, 2025

Sluggish German economy next on the docket

Moderators moved on in the end to Germany's constant flirtation with mild recession in the past three years, asking Olaf Scholz if Germany was goingthrough deindustrialization.

"The mood is bad: I would agree," Scholz said. However, he disputed the deindustrialization argument.

"We have a huge number of people in gainful employment," he stressed.

The incumbent chancellor said inflation was down after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and an unsteady ship had been stabilized, but that more needed to be done going forward.

Merz disputed this, pointing to jobs and businesses relocating to other countries.

"And these jobs and money is gone for good, it's never going to return," Merz said. He argued Scholz's assessment had had "nothing to do with the reality."